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Tradition. It isn’t simply inherited, it has to be kept alive.
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We tell stories, we’re storytellers, you know, this is not a restaurant, it’s a play.
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Mario Carbone has built his career around food people already know, recipes, rituals, and a version of New York that existed long before his restaurants did. But keeping tradition alive means more than recreating it. Today, Mario is a managing partner of Major Food Group, the company he co-founded in 2009.By now, Major Food Group has expanded into a luxury fine dining and hospitality company, operating restaurants, bars, private clubs, and hotels around the world. Despite global growth, Mario is still hands on developing new ideas with his team and helping steer the company in new directions. But how do you innovate without losing touch with the very traditions you’re built on? You
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go from one restaurant to two restaurants, uh, OK, well, they’re next door. I can bounce back and forth. Oh, theThe 3rd one’s a couple of blocks away. Shit. I mean I’ll get to, uh, I’ll get to all of them, I’ll get to all of them. As good problems continue to happen and you continue to grow, at some point, you have to, OK, the way I ran this is no longer the way I can run this.
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I’ve beena part of major brand expansions around the world, and I’ve watched others manage them too, for better or worse. I wanted to use my access to show you what that kind of evolution actually looks like.I’m Ryan Patel, and this is how they run.You know, when you’re walking down the street, what do you first see? Like, what do you, like, what’s, what’s your thought process every time you come down the street?
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It’s avery warm feeling. I mean, I, I started working on this block way before Carbone ever existed. One of my very first jobs was across the street at Lupa, which opened in 1999 and I was part of the very first team that opened there. And then eventually, I got sent to go um study in Italy after that.
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If I saw a young Mario walk down and you could just grab him and ask him.What advice would you givehim?
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Keep your head down, your mouth shut. Head down, mouth shut.
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Whatwould he ask you, seeing where you are today?
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It would be difficult for him to digest the fact that we’ve, we’ve done this, this way, um, because in 1999, I think, you know, my, my real, my aspiration was just be the, be the best possible chef I could be, learn from the very, very best, um, and, and try to, uh, make a name for myself in this city that I was, that I’m from. I, I could not possibly see beyond that.
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Mario seems to be looking far beyond that these days. But if you want to understand what he’s trying to preserve, this is probably the best place to start.
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It started here 15 years ago and now it’s sort of reached the other end of the globe. So to come back to this few 100 square feet kitchen on Thompson Street, where it was all, where it all started, is a very nostalgic kind of warm feeling.
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If you know me, you know I had to take advantage of this historic moment. So it was aprons on and time to face the heat.
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So we’re gonna do a reallyBeautiful, simple Sicilian recipe that’s great this time of year, Rigatoni ala Norma. Doesn’t have to be rigatoni, but it should be a short noodle. You’ll never see it with a long noodle. We’re gonna do it with a fresh rigatoni that we bought in the neighborhood actually. And you got your eggplant, fresh cherry tomatoes, basil, Sicilian dried oregano.Ricotta salata. It literally just salted ricotta, carbone tomato sauce, and our brand new carbon chili oil. Congratulations on the launch. Our first non-sauce product, which is exciting.
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Soyou know what you’re doing right now, right, for me? What am I doing? I’m about to go on LinkedIn and add to my job. I’m a 2.Underneath Mario Carbone work the
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line at Carbone
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and, and I’m gonna do this at home. Yeah,
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you can definitely do this.
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Watching Mario cook, he can tell you why he does just about everything a certain way, and most of it comes back to that same idea, tradition.
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That’s the recipe book that I work out of, right? I mean, I work pretty, pretty strictly out of the Italian-American recipe book, which is the origin is Southern Italian roots. Those dishes are not made to sort of challenge the guests. You’re there to comfort them and, and these are dishes that are rooted in, in moms and grandmas cooking at home. What’s important though is that, that color outside theBox and that are pushing new combinations. They’re spending their time and their talent on making something that you’ve never had before. That’s a really noble and important thing. It’s just not my thing. I’m making meatballs. I’m making rigatoni. I’m making things you know really well, but that’s hard. I can’t fall back on the fact that, well, you’ve never had it before, so you don’t like it. Well, you don’t get it. Switch to a fresh pan now, and we’re gonna make sauce. Just a really good pomodoro base. You know, these are, these are ingredients that have loved each other for thousands of years, oregano, cherry tomatoes, and basil.Fried eggplant goes in there. Cook all those guys together.And I’m gonna add some of my, we’re excited new secret ingredient. How spicy do you like your food? Uh,
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I’ll go medium,
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medium.
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I’m not gonna say hi because I don’t wanna cry.
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So now you drop your pasta cause your sauce is just about there.
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Do youmiss being in the heathere?
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No.It’s a young man’s game. I love being here and I love the team that does it because I mean
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it’s hot. I’m, I’m standing right here and I’m not even doing anything and it’s
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toasty and, and, and we’re not even, we’re not even in the kitchen is not even open yet. We’re doing one order of pasta here.And now you always wanna finish pretty much all pasta dishes. You wanna finish one, you know, one minute or so in the pan together so the noodle can kind of drink up the sauce.
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You know, one thing I, I see in you, you know, the meticulous detail.
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The devil’s in the details, that is, that is absolutely for sure, especially in this industry.
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I like the kick. I’m not crying.
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That would have been bad advertising if you started crying.
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But I like the texture though.
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The pasta is nice and chewy. That’s something that’s really important. That’s that al dente, um, really nice, nice chew, nice bounce to it, a little bit of background heat, sweetness of the eggplant, sweetness of the tomato, floral notes of the, of the herbs.
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Uh, so for people like me, when I try to make the home, what am I looking for that I made it
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right? Did you like it?
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That’s it.I love that.
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Success and failure is pretty simple.Did I like it? Did I eat all of it? Did, did the person I made it for like it? Success.
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Well, I liked it, but Mario’s attention to detail doesn’t end in the kitchen. In fact, there’s a lot more going on in the Carbon dining room than peoplerealize.
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You know, we tell, we tell stories, we’re storytellers, you know. This is not a restaurant, it’s a play, you know, every night at 5 o’clock, the curtain goes up. Everyone’s in costume. They’re telling very similar lines to a completely different audience every single night.I’m taking you somewhere tonight. And to do that, I need to set a very believable stage, you know, if a director is making a period piece, you have to consider that style suit wasn’t in vogue in that period and so on and so forth. So it’s, I, I really look at it sort of that way. You’re walking into New York City in 1957 andIt’s a functioning museum of the first generation Italian Americans that became entrepreneurs here on Thompson Street. So that’s a little bit of how we get to the size of the menu, the, the uniform cut and colors, having little, you know, little moments like this. Like this is your style. It’s a little vignette, yeah, and we actually use the table. So during the night they’ll have, you know, fresh fruit on there and, and nuts and candies and things that we wind up giving away, and you light the candles andYou know, it’s, it’s these little vignettes, a statue that could have easily been stolen from my grandmother. Um, it wasn’t, but
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the way you saidit, it could have been,
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it could have been, and if my grandmother was here, she would definitely steal something.We’re not justMaking dinner, you know, these are experiences. People wait a long time to come here. They’re celebrating anniversaries and, and, and birthdays and marking moments of their lives with us, and the responsibility is to, to do our best tonight. And I think our, our people feel that.And without them, this whole house of cards falls, you know, I’m, I’m just one person. We are 3 owners, you know, it, it, it doesn’t work.
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To me, that’swhat stands out to, I think, to your success. Share with me a little bit of how you continue to maintain that because obviously it has to evolve to make sure that people want to continue to workhere.
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I think how we are successful withGetting people to buy into what we’re doing and creating a real family out of this company. It started really small. We were incredibly hands-on.When it was just this baby thing. And over a small period of time, you start to build these ambassadors that are gonna stay with you and they’re gonna become the, the people that are gonna preach the gospel of your message. I can only reach so many people every day. But, you know, you met like Valente, who’s running this kitchen. Valente started working for me before this company existed. So somewhere around 2008, he, I hired him uh at a restaurant in Queens that I worked at andHe’s still with us. So, I’m confident that he’ll answer a question that he’s asked today, pretty damn close to what I would have said. It’s understanding and making peace with the fact that I’m not gonna touch everybody.AndTaking great care of this core group of people that have been with me so long that they, they fluently speak this dialect. And, and they can, and, and they’re happy. They, they, they feel great ownership in this company, and they, they don’t want for something outside of our walls. All right, let’s walk around the neighborhood.
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One of those people is Ricky Tinelli. They call him the face, and he’s been at Carbone since the beginning.
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If you know Carbone, you know Ricky. If you don’t know Ricky, you ain’t never been here.
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In anyother context, I might have been a bit nervous when Ricky said, go take a look, but you can’t tell the story of Carbone without paying homage to the neighborhood. So this block has
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changed a little bit dramatically. It’s now Bagel Avenue. Bagel Avenue.
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Why, why you gotta say it thatway?
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The kids are lining up for a bagel. Come nighttime, all attention moves to Carbone.
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When you guys, both of you were first here, right, can you describe the scene a little bit for me? 2013,
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2013,
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I remember we were training in Chef Mario’s apartment very close by at the time, Washington Square Park, and then I remember walking over with everyone and seeing the space for the first time and I was completely just blown away. I felt like I’ve been there my whole life, to be honest with you.
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Thegoal was, how do I get.Every person that walked in the door that night, when they opened the door.They’re going to get hit with this energy. It’s the music. It’s a dining room that’s full. There’s people waiting to get checked in, the sense of being sort of Henry Hill walking in the back of Copacabana in Goodfellas. I want you to have that sort of feeling. This is your place. You’re walking in, and all of a sudden, you know, cue, then he kissed me and like, let’s go.
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Mario calls this another pocket of Little Italy. Mulberry Street gets most of the attention, but a few blocks west, there’s more to this story.
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The first of the sort of important remnants that are still alive will be Raffeetto’s up here, and you can see on their sign established 1996. So that’s the
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beginning. Our Lady of Pompeii, Fico’s on Bleecker, Arturo’s, still making pizza with coal fire, and even Carbone was Rocco’s long before Mario camealong.
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So as much as things change, they stay the same. I mean, there’s.There’s great stories and, and sort of ghosts of, of, of generations past. If you live in the city or you’re visiting New York and you want to experience the Italian food of New York, you come here, that’s ours. That’s our food. There’s great Italian regional restaurants here, but those are the foods of those people, whether it’s Tuscan or Sicilian or whatever. The Italian food of New York is what we serve, and we try to be pretty strict.Disciples of that thing. So,
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so Ricky,how do you, how do you ensure that? How do you make sure that day in and day out it starts
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with the fact that he is that thing.
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We, yes, uh, uh, we, we, we grew up very similar. It’s, uh, something that’s a very cultural thing for us, and, and it, and it’s an honor to be able to pass it on, you know, to be able to do that. A lot of people talk about the good old days, you know, like I like to say like now, now.It was the good old days. Yeah,
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we do, we do do that with staff sometimes too, like when I’ll get all the chefs together, you know, we have these meetings where all the carbone chefs from around the world will get together and Ricky will host them. He’ll walk them around because it’s, they’re, they, it’s important points of origin of where we came from and why we do the thing that we do.
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It’s like the history in this neighborhood is just incredible when you really take a deep dive.Into it and like I
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can see the, the smile and the passion just come out just walking the block and we’re just walking the block. We’re just walking the block and it’s
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important it’s a thing that you gotta do. You gotta do a little walk the block every now and again. We
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do this at least 4 or 5 times.
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I’ll tell Rick, you always get a cup of coffee, walk the block. I love to walk around. We have to have a serious meeting. It’s there. You leave. You gotta go, go take a walk.
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Absolutely.
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Let’s go take
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a
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walk.
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Let’s go take a.I love finding out that they bring all their chefs here. These are people running Carbone kitchens thousands of miles from New York, and Mario wants them to come back and spend time on this block, which made our next stop pretty interesting, because now they’re trying to put that same Carbone experience into a jar for people who may never make it to Thompson Street, and making something like that, at the scale they’re doing it is a whole different challenge.
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Just to get to a place where the brand.Had enough momentum to even warrant creating this, right? So like the 10 years prior of opening, you know, this carbone and then subsequent ones and gaining momentum, gaining recognition to a place whereIt is viable to sell this thing across the country and give people a little bit of the restaurant. And then when you finally get to, yeah, the R&D of, of making, you know, what is a small batch normally into this, you know, industrial amount and how do you not lose anything along theway.
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Was that hard, you know, creating this, you know, the first part of the sauce to be able to get it right, how many iterations?
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It definitelytook some time because we were, you know, it was, it was still Rich and I doing it, you know, I remember he and I went to Penn.Pennsylvania, which was the first place where we cooked the sauce in mass, and we spent days there, you know, making that sauce you
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have that that weekend.
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Uh, I mean, uh, a good amount of sauce, but you’re learning, you’re learning the equipment, you’re learning the techniques, you’re learning, you know, you’re learning a new discipline, so we had to get a crash course in that before then applying our recipes and techniques to it, and so, it took days to just get to anything that was even viable, but even still to this day.You know, every time a batch is made, they send us a sample of that batch. So I mean, it’s still being tasted and tested by us even today when we’re, you know, in 25,000 stores.
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Once it was a possibility, you have to be convinced to do this, or you’re just like, oh, this makes sense.
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I think that there’s, at least I’ll speak for myself, early trepidation ofYou know, is this going to be detrimental to the brand of the restaurant? You know, if I take this, if I distill this down into this jar of sauce, am I hurting the brand in any way? So, I think once I made peace with the fact that I can, I can genuinely make this as good at, at, as I can at the restaurant, and, and in maybe in certain instances even better, um, from through technology.Um, I can, I can, I can give people a little piece of the restaurant, and then I sort of, started to visualize, OK, they’re gonna buy this, they’re gonna make a meal at home tonight for themselves and their kids, and, and they’re gonna have a little, they’re gonna have a little carbone experience at home, and that made me really happy and, and really definitely inspired me to, to, to pushit.
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Was it that that got you over there being the peaceful part was, I’m sure getting it perfectly first
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itwas a product, and then the realization thatI can touch all these people across the country that don’t have access to the restaurant. So it was, it was, it was both those things needed to exist for me to be.Bullish on doing this.Here we are.
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Does this make you smile every time you go, go get your groceries. She’s like how beautiful
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she is. This is a, it’s a great, we have 3 rows. We’re 3 rows deep. We’re 15 across. We’re top shelf. It’s fantastic. See,
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you have to tell the people at home, being top shelf easy. OK, I just want you to explain that because it is not easy
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to do Carbone is a just because Carbone is a difficult restaurant to get into does not mean that Whole Foods is gonna give you that. That’s, that’s top billing.Top billing in Whole Foods. It’s not easy
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to do. So when you, when you go shopping in different stores, you always run by here.
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I always go through the tomato section. I stop by. I take a look at what the carbon display looks like. I see, um, how well it’s stocked. Is it, are, are people buying a lot of it? Has it been restocked? I’ll usually.Read, adjust all the labels. I can see and have them all facing nicely. By the way, I can see you do that, yeah, yeah. So this is, this makes ADD Mario very happy.
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Zizi’s Club is right around the corner from the Whole Foods in Hudson Yards, so I snuck over to take a look.I may have used Mario’s name to get in.Zizi’s is one of major food group’s private membership clubs. It’s got a Japanese restaurant, bars, lounges, and even their own private carbone. Each space opens up its own world of possibilities, but it all still feels tied somehow to that history and style that drives Mario.It’s wild to think that this all started in that little kitchen on Thompson Street, and it’s pretty clear Mario and his partners have a lot more ambition ahead.The challenge now is knowing what it actually takes to run all of this as it scales.The word creativity to me comes up a lot when I see you, right? The ability to scale this concept, like, is that something natural that comes to you? Is it something that you kind of, you know, you told me you get, you’re, you’re
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curious. I don’t think of creativity that often. It’s not something that I think about. I like to try to be really well educated. I, if I’m, if I’m working on something, I wanna know as much as I can about it so that I can speak on it. I’m a student of what I’m doing.And from there, I think the pieces start to fall into place.
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What have youlearned in the scaling of, you know, the first restaurant to now and even more so? How have you changed with your insights? Has it changed or is it?
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It’s definitely changed, and I thinkToday, I’d like to believe that we are more patient, even though from the outside it appears that we’re growing at this insane rate and we are, there is a lot of patience toWaiting to choosing the right location, to choosing the right local partner if that’s the case, the right developer, the right moment, playing it out and knowing that, OK, if I take that space, it’s probably going to be 2 years out. What’s it going to be like in 2 years? Having a good understanding of what’s going on in the world geopolitically, you know, financially, all the things that I, I, I did not at all even have a, a twinkle in my eye.When I opened, you know, the first couple of restaurants, now I look at this company and my role, and I need to be very hypersensitive to all these things when making big decisions about where to plot this, this, this giant battleship to go next.
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It’s funny, and you,you know, getting to spend a little time with you. Like, how do you identify yourself now? Do you like being called a chef?
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Iwill, I will always say I’m a chef. I am a chef. Um, that is, that is, that is my trade. That is, that is what I learned. That is the thing that I am most proud of.But for me to also be an entrepreneur, which is something that, that excites me just as much to have built a platform that there’s enough demand to grow it, I was fully aware that I couldn’t do that from the kitchen, and I still, I think people don’t realize how often I still put an apron on. I, I work almost every day with a much smaller team of chefs in more of a test kitchen lab environment where we’re developing what’s coming next.And then we’re gonna disseminate that information to the, to whatever the team needs to hear it, but I’m still really active with them, and then I’ll, I’ll try to dip in and out of it, and then go and figure out what the next sort of problem to solve is.
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I have a couple more questions, but I wanna do the rapid fire right now. What, what time does your day start?
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5:50 a.m.
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What time does it end?
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I try to go to bed by 10:30,
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11. That’s good.Yeah. Do you actually go to sleep? Yeah, like a rock. Firstthing you check in the morning.
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Every restaurant sends a report at the end of the night, so I’ll go through all of that while I’m sort of having my first cup of coffee in the morning. I’ll have my coffee. I’ll go through the emails, and then I’ll get ready and go to the gym. I work out from 8 to 9 every day.And I’m back home, showered and ready to go by 9:30, 9:40. Love it. Yeah,
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one thing you refuseto delegate.
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Uh, the making of my coffee. I wanna make mycoffee.
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I love that. So what do you say you’re a morning or a nighttime person? Morning,
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yeah, much, much
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more. Although your restaurant’s at
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night. Well, yeah, I mean, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve given up the one a.m. kitchen beers. I mean those days are past me.
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Instinct
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or data for me it’s instinct. I’m more old school. Um, I’m trying to get better at using analytics, and there’s people in my company that are incredible at that. I am still a dinosaur.
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You say that, but I’ve, you know, you’ve, you’ve been really open about how you usedata.
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Yes, and I think often when I say that I’m referring to the people that know how to use a computer in my company.I don’t even own a computer
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I mean, I was gonna ask you that I’ve, I’ve heard you say notes, and I’m assuming when you first opened your restaurant across the street from here that it was all notebooks when you were keeping all your chef notes.
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I mean, across the street I was just, uh, I was the lowest guy on the totem pole, so I had a, I had a little, you know, I mean, as a cook you have a little notebook in your back pocket, um, so that you can keep really.Recipes and notes to yourself becauseBack then, most restaurants didn’t have anything that they could give somebody. So you’re learning a recipe from the guy that worked the station right before you. So you’re trying to like get it right and write it down and keep it in your notes. So you have that sort of thing, you know, it’s, it’s very analog to, I am now slightly better.
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Do you miss, do you, does, does the kitchen miss that now, having that kind of experience?
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No, the kitchen is better for it now. The kitchen is much better for it now.
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You’drather be in the dining room or in the kitchen?
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I’d rather be in the kitchen. The chefs are kind of like DJs. They can, they, they are the, they are the most important part of the party, but they want to be hidden behind something.
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I can see thatI can see that. 1 perfect plate or 1 million consistent jars.
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Oh wow, um.1 million consistent jars is way harder.
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What’s harder, opening your first restaurant or protecting the brand
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now? Opening your first restaurant, it’s incredibly difficult. You know nothing. No one, no one taught you anything. You’re figuring it out as you go.
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So one wordanswers, a future of hospitality is
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experiential,
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uh, leadership is.
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Leadership is.Difficult to answer.
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I.And I respect that you take that because leadership means a lot to you when it comes to all the things that you do too,
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so yeah, um, because
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it’salso professional and personal, it’s all of it together, right? That’s why I think
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causing as
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well.
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I think it’s um.That the the sort of the care that you take in your personal journey and message, um.It has to start with, with you, um, butGreat leaders can affect a great number of people, so.It only takes a handful of people to, to move an entire army,
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you know, the CPG world is not easy. The consumer package good arm, right? Anything surprising when you’ve entered that space?
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Well, we’ve had an incredible advantage in the fact that, um, Eric Sky, who’s the CEO of that company, is arguably, you know, the, he’s, he’s the Michael Jordan of CPG of his generation.So the fact that we were able to get him to run this business gave me all the confidence I needed and all the things I knew. I didn’t know about that. I knew how different that business was from the one I had every day. We were confident that the brand was going to resonate across the country, but we.Needed that guy to get there. So having Eric on board has been a daily crash course of what that business is, and every day I learn from him and every call I have with him, I learn from him, but he is, he’s an oracle in this business.
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I mean, key theme I keep hearing from you ishire the right people.
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Yes, yes, you, I can only do so much.
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10 years from now, what do you think that the group willLook like or represent.
25:24 spk_1
It starts withWhat are we really interested in doing? What are we really excited about? If we are really excited, that energy is going to trickle down to our team and they’re gonna get really excited. So it has to start with something that we’re genuinely excited to do. I go back to the word hospitality. We’re trying to now start to.Get into the other areas where the word hospitality exists so that can manifest itself as a hotel. It can be a residence. It can be a community. It can be a consumer packaged good. It doesn’t necessarily need, it can be a member’s club. It doesn’t necessarily need to be the traditional four walls of a restaurant. We’ve proven we can do this, but I do think that.If we just continue to do this for the next 20 years we’re gonna see diminishing returns. So challenge ourselves, challenge our team. Let’s do some fun shit. Let’s, let’s, let’s get together and let’s, let’s push what we can and see where we can take this thing. I mean, I mean,
26:19 spk_0
you transform the fine dining space and you’re gonna transform the hospitality world of the profit. Is that, isthat what I’m hearing?
26:24 spk_1
Major food groups started as a restaurant company.Whatever happens after that sentence is, who knows.
26:31 spk_0
Mario still considers himself a chef, and after spending all this time with him, I get it. He’s still developing food, still checking on his restaurants, taking notes, and even straightening the jars when he finds them in a grocery store. But in building something bigger, he seems to spend his time now more focused on people around him, making sure they understand what matters and giving.Room to carry the torch. Whether it’s a chef halfway around the world or Ricky walking somebody around the old neighborhood, you can see how much of Mario is still there. He isn’t trying to freeze the past. He’s trying to build systems that will carry the past forward without him standing in every kitchen.
27:06 spk_1
I liketo believe that we’re the torchbearers for sort of that, that, that old school thing. Be respectful of what it was. Make sure that what we put in its place is better than what we found it so the next generation can enjoy it.
